It will be closed from 1 Dec. Nov should be safe, can call hotline to confirm.
IVF/ICSI Support Group
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wish88
Active Member
Hi ladies. I have done two medicated FET and both of them resulted in BFN (no implantation). Unfortunately we won’t know the reason for the failure. I have just started taking tcm meds to improve my body condition before the trying the next attempt.
Anyone met with the same situation before and managed to bfp in later transfers? Need some positive motivations. Thank you
Anyone met with the same situation before and managed to bfp in later transfers? Need some positive motivations. Thank you
I used to see her and with her for a very long time. She strongly believes in her own med and encourage to try naturally before doing ivf. She doesn’t like patient to see her for the first time n immediately said do ivf next mth. Her view of Tcm is that the effect need long term to see results. It will not happen in 2 mths time so if u are going to cycle next mth don’t bother. N yes she could have put this msg across in a nicer way. Not the most friendly dr and very very busy. However she can warm up if u are with her for a long time n she feels that u trust her. A very experience dr and good knowledge of ivf. I encourage brewing of herbs because I feel it’s the most natural process as compared to powder form. My health did improve with Tcm. Lesser ulcer, bowel smoother n I don’t fall sick easily.
If u want to see her just be mentally prepared that she is not the tender loving dr. Her words can be upsetting especially so if u are feeling emotional.
There are too many types of antibody test and u cannot test all. If you are concern you can suggest to the dr to do a few relevant test. I took thyroid antibody test because of my elevated tsh.
Rainbowskies
Active Member
Hi ladies. I have done two medicated FET and both of them resulted in BFN (no implantation). Unfortunately we won’t know the reason for the failure. I have just started taking tcm meds to improve my body condition before the trying the next attempt.
Anyone met with the same situation before and managed to bfp in later transfers? Need some positive motivations. Thank you
Did the doctor explain the possible reasons? Or simply that there is no implantation?
I also failed my medicated fet and wondering what’s next
towkayneo
Well-Known Member
Yup, prof wong has his own set of beliefs. he will also be very blunt towards patients. some said he's too conservative whereas some are perfectly fine with his old school methods.
As for THH, I would say he's neutral towards TCM, not like all for it. Like him cos he understands that patients will try all available methods to conceive and he respects that so long it doesn't interfere with the IVF meds.
towkayneo
Well-Known Member
Yeah, it's hearsay that Fann Wong got preggie under her care (Fann Wong went to Ann Tan, another celebrity IVF doc by the way) and TSB would boast that Chris Lee would be the one collecting the chinese herbs on her behalf etc.
I lost my trust in her when I asked her how would she know my condition when she didn't have any scanner and she told me it was not necessary. I was *gasp* and I guess she should always close the door while talking to patients. The patients waiting outside can hear what she was talking inside - Privacy pls, for that amount of consultation fee.
Oh well, each to her own. There are always 2 camps to one doctor.
towkayneo
Well-Known Member
Some say that if the guy has problems with his sperm, her herbs can help. But for women, I always feel that there's no scanner, how to see and understand the insides?
towkayneo
Well-Known Member
Hi hi, usually for BFN, the main reason is simply the embryo is not viable (provided you have ensured that your tubes, womb are ok). IVF is a number game; the doc will tweak the medication dosage accordingly for you.Hi ladies. I have done two medicated FET and both of them resulted in BFN (no implantation). Unfortunately we won’t know the reason for the failure. I have just started taking tcm meds to improve my body condition before the trying the next attempt.
Anyone met with the same situation before and managed to bfp in later transfers? Need some positive motivations. Thank you
Jia you!
towkayneo
Well-Known Member
Yeah, just to set the record right, TCM meds doesn't work immediately. To see the effect, you need at least 3-6 months.
P/S: "However she can warm up if u are with her for a long time n she feels that u trust her." ---> I rather she doesn't warm up to me cos I don't want to be with her for a long time
Yeah, just to set the record right, TCM meds doesn't work immediately. To see the effect, you need at least 3-6 months.
P/S: "However she can warm up if u are with her for a long time n she feels that u trust her." ---> I rather she doesn't warm up to me cos I don't want to be with her for a long time
3 mths too short.
That’s true. Well some of her patient bfp naturally and see her till give birth so it’s a Long time but not for me
towkayneo
Well-Known Member
3 mths too short.
That’s true. Well some of her patient bfp naturally and see her till give birth so it’s a Long time but not for me
Not to dis TCM, my friend who got BFP naturally under her, who swore by her; in her 2nd pregnancy, she took her chinese herbs religiously, then again, it couldn't stop her waterbag from leaking in the midst of her late 2nd trimester. She has to bedrest in NUH for a few months before she deliver.
wish88
Active Member
The doctor is unable to tell us the reason, because it could be the embryo or our body.
Just that two consecutive bfn is depressing
Which attempt is this for u?
wish88
Active Member
Hihi
Recently I removed a hydro tube, another side doctor say doesn’t have to be removed because it seems ok. Lining wise wasn’t fantastic, around 6-7mm last scan (dr said it’s uneven). In nuh once hit 7mm they allow the transfer. So I should work on the lining?
As for the medication dosage, does it mean for a fresh cycle, the doctor can tweak the dosage and try to get more viable embryos than the previous batch of embryos?
Thank you towkayneo!
CatsInTheClouds
Member
Hey ladies
Has anyone ever experienced not ovulating or having a super long cycle following an unsuccessful IVF attempt?
Has anyone ever experienced not ovulating or having a super long cycle following an unsuccessful IVF attempt?
CatsInTheClouds
Member
The doctor is unable to tell us the reason, because it could be the embryo or our body.
Just that two consecutive bfn is depressing
Which attempt is this for u?
Oh dear, so sorry to hear that wish88 ): hope you're doing okay...
My first FET was a BFN (no implantation) too, even though my uterus lining looked good on the day of transfer. I asked my doctor if she knew why, and she said it was possible that it was because my blastocyst was only partially re-expanded (as opposed to one that is fully expanded or already hatching out of its shell), and it probably didn't continue to grow after the transfer.
I had read a journal article online that talks about the degree of re-expansion of the blastocyst after it's thawed partly determining whether it will continue to grow. When they freeze the embryo, the cells inside the embryo shell shrinks (there's this scientific bit about how the embryologist drains a portion of the embryo that contains liquid so that the cryopreservant can better infiltrate the embryo and freeze it more evenly).
When it is thawed, energy is required from the embryo to pump the liquid back into this centre, re-expanding it. A fully-expanded embryo is likely to be a strong one because a lot of energy is required (similar to how a lot of energy is needed for am embryo multiply the cells correctly to turn it into a blastocyst).
Sometimes it takes a while for the blastocyst to fully re-expand, but unfortunately, when it's a Day 5 or 6 transfer, the doctor and embryologist can't wait too long as the blastocyst needs to get into the uterus environment to make it viable. So that's why not fully expanded blastocysts are transferred, because there is a chance that they will fully re-expanded when it goes into the uterus. But at other times, the fact that it hasn't become fully re-expanded at the time of transfer could also mean that the blastocyst cells are already not growing or too weak.
Not sure if this is fully relevant to your situation, but I just wanted to share cus when I came across the article, it shed quite a lot of light on the 'unknowns' of ETs for me, and I know how frustrating not having answers can be after an unsuccessful attempt... Hope it helps in some way
Alishablond
Active Member
After first unsuccessful ivf with chemical pregnancy, my first cycle was super long, bright red spots till 30 CD, after that my doc prescribed me norethisterone to stop bleeding, also did hysteroscopy same cycle. Second cycle was normal with ovulation.Hey ladies
Has anyone ever experienced not ovulating or having a super long cycle following an unsuccessful IVF attempt?
Prof Wong said I was too sensitive to hormonal stimulation, that’s why it happened.
jayjayqueenie
Active Member
i agree. sometimes prof wong is blunt.
jayjayqueenie
Active Member
daylesford
Well-Known Member
can advise what it means by embryo not viable ?
Embryos issues are either poor quality embryos that don't even survived past the early days after fertilization
or the embryos can be seemingly stronger but unhealthy ones that have chromosomes issues. These embryos can develop into blastocysts but cannot implant or implanted but ended up with chemical pregnancy or miscarriages when the pregnancy progresses.
daylesford
Well-Known Member
omg! Its must be a daunting experience to have water bag leaking... Well, TCM just helps us condition our body but it does not prevent any gynecology issues or pregnancy complications. Perhaps, not moving so much during pregnancy could prevent the water bag leaking incident.
Rainbowskies
Active Member
The doctor is unable to tell us the reason, because it could be the embryo or our body.
Just that two consecutive bfn is depressing
Which attempt is this for u?
zzz it’s my first attempt but I will have to do a fresh cycle if I were to continue on. Sigh I just feel it’s so draining.
I will only see the doctor next week and have been sleepless just thinking about this.
CatsInTheClouds
Member
Ohhh I see...so it’s likely to be a hormonal imbalance thing...wow bright red spots till CD30 is really long! Thanks for sharing your experience
CatsInTheClouds
Member
Can totally identify with your feeling of how draining IVF can be, and the sleepless nights! It’ll take some time, but hope you’ll feel better in the days to come... lots of hugs for you, and hoping your doctor’s appt next week will shed some light on the way forward.
Let’s all take it one step at a time
jayjayqueenie
Active Member
u know i have not even done my 1st transfer yet but already feeling sad reading all these.
daylesford
Well-Known Member
Well thats why in 70% of the BFNs, its embryos quality issues. But be positive for your cycle la ! There are ladies who BFP on their first attempt too.
towkayneo
Well-Known Member
Means it will either not implant or end up in miscarriage.can advise what it means by embryo not viable ?
towkayneo
Well-Known Member
Actually I do appreciate medical professionals being truthful and straightforward rather than those simply refused to say anything unless you ask.
What I am hesitant about Prof is, he has his own set of beliefs and may not be open to your suggestions. For example, he doesn't believe in womb scratching, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work.
towkayneo
Well-Known Member
Hi Wish, yup, you can work on the lining. KKH's standard is min 8mm. Did you ask the doctor that uneven lining, will it hinder the chances of implantation? Is there anything you can do to smoothen it?Hihi
Recently I removed a hydro tube, another side doctor say doesn’t have to be removed because it seems ok. Lining wise wasn’t fantastic, around 6-7mm last scan (dr said it’s uneven). In nuh once hit 7mm they allow the transfer. So I should work on the lining?
As for the medication dosage, does it mean for a fresh cycle, the doctor can tweak the dosage and try to get more viable embryos than the previous batch of embryos?
Thank you towkayneo!
Yes, medication dosage for fresh cycle, to "grow" better quality eggs.
jayjayqueenie
Active Member
a lot of times when i am having consultation with him i dont ask him much. somehow he looks good mood kekeke.
i was with another specialist and when i ask him questions he look perplex and sometimes dont answer at all.
Rainbowskies
Active Member
Can totally identify with your feeling of how draining IVF can be, and the sleepless nights! It’ll take some time, but hope you’ll feel better in the days to come... lots of hugs for you, and hoping your doctor’s appt next week will shed some light on the way forward.
Let’s all take it one step at a time
it really is and i hope i can learn how to improve my chances at my next appt. thank you for hearing me out
Alishablond
Active Member
Prof also doesn’t believe in sticky blood and immune antibodies, but he can’t stop me seeing Dr Sheila Vasoo, I bring him her prescription and he adds them to the computer. Once I asked him to give me a prescription for Clexane(blood thinner), because in NUH pharmacy it is three times cheaper than in Dr Sheila’s clinic. He was angry a bit, said buy from her, but prescribed anyway
Honeypokey
Member
u have to check with your doctor why you were prescribed with IVF in the first place.
For me IUI is a waste of time. Given a chance I would have done my injections for egg retrieval rather than putting sperm in and wait for miracle to happen and when it failed I don't even know which part went wrong.
And you have to Q with all the ladies (ivf + iui) waiting in KKH for scan every few morning. Very stressful and don't get to see appointed doctor at all. Those on duty doctors don't even bother to answer my questions cause they were just too busy
Honeypokey
Member
Stay away for internet reading once you start feeling toxic.
My hub has low sperm count and we have been trying for no2 for 2 years.. We are positive and don't mind ivf but maybe we will see dr Sadhana first and see what's the outcome..
jayjayqueenie
Active Member
wish88
Active Member
Oh dear, so sorry to hear that wish88 ): hope you're doing okay...
My first FET was a BFN (no implantation) too, even though my uterus lining looked good on the day of transfer. I asked my doctor if she knew why, and she said it was possible that it was because my blastocyst was only partially re-expanded (as opposed to one that is fully expanded or already hatching out of its shell), and it probably didn't continue to grow after the transfer.
I had read a journal article online that talks about the degree of re-expansion of the blastocyst after it's thawed partly determining whether it will continue to grow. When they freeze the embryo, the cells inside the embryo shell shrinks (there's this scientific bit about how the embryologist drains a portion of the embryo that contains liquid so that the cryopreservant can better infiltrate the embryo and freeze it more evenly).
When it is thawed, energy is required from the embryo to pump the liquid back into this centre, re-expanding it. A fully-expanded embryo is likely to be a strong one because a lot of energy is required (similar to how a lot of energy is needed for am embryo multiply the cells correctly to turn it into a blastocyst).
Sometimes it takes a while for the blastocyst to fully re-expand, but unfortunately, when it's a Day 5 or 6 transfer, the doctor and embryologist can't wait too long as the blastocyst needs to get into the uterus environment to make it viable. So that's why not fully expanded blastocysts are transferred, because there is a chance that they will fully re-expanded when it goes into the uterus. But at other times, the fact that it hasn't become fully re-expanded at the time of transfer could also mean that the blastocyst cells are already not growing or too weak.
Not sure if this is fully relevant to your situation, but I just wanted to share cus when I came across the article, it shed quite a lot of light on the 'unknowns' of ETs for me, and I know how frustrating not having answers can be after an unsuccessful attempt... Hope it helps in some way
Hi dear. Thank you I’m feeling better now
Thanks for sharing the above interesting info. My embryos for the 2 FET attempts are expanded blastocysts, not sure does that mean that they are fully re-expanded.
Yeah till now I’m still thinking is it me, or the embryos.
Thank you! When will u be attempting again?
wish88
Active Member
Hi Rainbowskies. Perhaps you want to take a short break and condition your body before the next fresh attempt?
Me too. Since the failed cycle, I hardly have a good night sleep, always waking up super early
wish88
Active Member
Yes will work on the lining. Now I’m left with a last frozen embryo, I really hope it’s the golden one.
I didn’t ask the doctor on the uneven lining, but he told me it’s quite common to have some slight difference. I will check with him the next appt
Thank you towkayneo
wish88
Active Member
Prof also doesn’t believe in sticky blood and immune antibodies, but he can’t stop me seeing Dr Sheila Vasoo, I bring him her prescription and he adds them to the computer. Once I asked him to give me a prescription for Clexane(blood thinner), because in NUH pharmacy it is three times cheaper than in Dr Sheila’s clinic. He was angry a bit, said buy from her, but prescribed anyway
I’m with Prof too. In my last appt I ask him if I can check on my blood to see if there is any issues. He say I can but it’s not very likely for my case. In the end he still give me Dr Shiela’s details for me to make the appointment.
I have never seen Prof get angry before
He seems quite cheerful most of the times.
towkayneo
Well-Known Member
All the best, Wish. Don't give upYes will work on the lining. Now I’m left with a last frozen embryo, I really hope it’s the golden one.
I didn’t ask the doctor on the uneven lining, but he told me it’s quite common to have some slight difference. I will check with him the next appt
Thank you towkayneo
towkayneo
Well-Known Member
or worse, keeps looking at the clock cos consultation goes by batches of minutes..
wish88
Active Member
Rainbowskies
Active Member
Does anyone (or knows anyone) that had successful FET in NUH before? Like implanted, carried to full term, healthy baby born?
Like some others... I’m feeling a bit nervous now always hearing bad experiences
Yes I personally know of a few
Are you going for your fet soon?
Rainbowskies
Active Member
Yes I will ask doctor for advice also. I think only people who have gone through it really knows the pain. Hopefully we will get over and sleep well soon
.
sassynsweet
Member
and u work in abbott company...i realised hospital mostly adult enteral products e.g ensure, glucerna, jevity, nepro, oxepa, promod, suplena and one more amazing drugs where almost all ladies here used before during ER which is the short acting drug "propofol" which make u in deep sedation and is commonly used in ICU area also come under abbott...so i guess the abbott company does make big money ah which is good for u
paiseh what is Jevity ah? it sounds so familiar i was wondering if its for mother.
don't think it has anything to do with mummies right?
i know Ensure milk is this, my sister in law used to drink to get more nutrient, but never heard of jevity also.
my friend who has IVF to give birth to twins, told me, her breastfeeding saves her tons of milk formula money..... abbott would not be happy hahaha!
Last edited:
Hello!
Yes. Going for my 3rd FET, first one from this fresh retrieval cycle with NUH. Waiting for period to come before start progynova... probably first week Oct transfer.
